First Amendment and all that stuff....

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

x-posted from my lj, but it's f-locked over there

*sigh*

here's the deal. as a rule, i don't read Wincest. i've read... three. and two of those? i skipped over the really squicky scene(s). and i don't write it, either. so what am i doing posting on this particular subject? the principal of the thing, and that people really should pay closer attention to what they read.

i'm not going to name names, anonimity is safe here. i've had (at least) two people on my flist (that i know of, anyway) get busted on, ragged on, insulted, nasty comments left in their various ljs because they wrote wincest, and it was properly tagged as such.

here's the deal. proper reading skills are required to read the phrase "Pairing: Sam/Dean"... or whatever your pairing may be. there's also the phrase "Rating: Adult." these are the kind of fics i just scroll right on by, don't stop, just keep going. that's the point of this information in the header. (i'm sure many many people skip over my "gen" or "Dean/OFC; NC-17" fics.)

i don't even read it; so why would i take the time to read through a fic, and then comment, "that's sick!" or "ewww!! they're doing what????" and while i believe there are some things that should not be written by sane, healthy adults, i'm not being forced to read it.

to quote one of my favourite sayings, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (Voltaire, it's in my sidebar at my lj)

your LJ counts as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of opinions, and freedom of thought. and as well it should be.

any kinds of fic is allowed to be posted here, as long as it has the proper header.

Comments

[lady-shain.livejournal.com]

I'm going to poke my nose into this, for all the good that it will do, since I suspect that the originator of the objection has long since decided that it's not worth reading the thread any longer.

First I need to state that I, in no way, whatsoever, support child abuse. It's a heinous crime, and I've been known to suggest that people who abuse the trust of a child and take advantage of children sexually have forfeited not only their right to freedom, but to life. I can't believe that I feel that I have to state this that blatantly, but given the sheer pig-headedness in the comments that precede this, I do feel that it needs to be said.

Reading the comments above, it seems to me that(through personal experience -and no one should have to go through this; it's a crime that you did, lia_van_helsing)the belief appears to be that all wincest in fandom involves children and is by definition, abuse.

Incest and child abuse are two different things, although they can, and often do, co-exist. Incest, in and of itself, is a societal taboo - one that was established back when the primary function of sex was seen as the production of offspring - a 'moral' crime as opposed to a crime such as sexual assualt which by definition involves injury to one party by another. Incest can be consentual - and if it is, it's my feeling that the state should stay the hell out of the bedrooms. Fundamentally, I agree with potthead - provided that the situation involves two mutually consenting adults, and does not involve the production of children (due to the high probability of birth defects), then it's not hurting anyone and why should we care?

I'm not a big fan of underage wincest. I usually avoid it. What's underage? Depends on your personal views. I defy anyone to tell me that 'kids' today don't understand sex at age 14, so my definition of 'underage' is based more on emotional maturity as opposed to state mandated ages of consent.

Whatever I've read - whether I liked it or not - it was my choice to read it - so I'm in no position to cry foul. Of course, the preceding applies only if the piece is appropriately labelled, with pairings made clear, and warnings up front. No one deserves to be broadsided with stuff that squicks them, and that they would never have read if warned beforehand.

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

actually this whole thing started really with people igorning the warnings, and reading anyway, getting squicked, and posting "ewwwww."

and i was pretty much, "read people! how hard is that! i do it!"

and this is what it morphed into. eh, stuff happens.

[lady-shain.livejournal.com]

Yup. Stuff does. Amazing how something that should be simple and obvious, isn't. Oh Well.

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

yep, pretty much.... ;)

oh well is right.

*sigh*

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

yep, stupid is everywhere...

i looked at your userinfo.... Dune! awesome!! :D