First Amendment and all that stuff....

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

x-posted from my lj, but it's f-locked over there

*sigh*

here's the deal. as a rule, i don't read Wincest. i've read... three. and two of those? i skipped over the really squicky scene(s). and i don't write it, either. so what am i doing posting on this particular subject? the principal of the thing, and that people really should pay closer attention to what they read.

i'm not going to name names, anonimity is safe here. i've had (at least) two people on my flist (that i know of, anyway) get busted on, ragged on, insulted, nasty comments left in their various ljs because they wrote wincest, and it was properly tagged as such.

here's the deal. proper reading skills are required to read the phrase "Pairing: Sam/Dean"... or whatever your pairing may be. there's also the phrase "Rating: Adult." these are the kind of fics i just scroll right on by, don't stop, just keep going. that's the point of this information in the header. (i'm sure many many people skip over my "gen" or "Dean/OFC; NC-17" fics.)

i don't even read it; so why would i take the time to read through a fic, and then comment, "that's sick!" or "ewww!! they're doing what????" and while i believe there are some things that should not be written by sane, healthy adults, i'm not being forced to read it.

to quote one of my favourite sayings, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (Voltaire, it's in my sidebar at my lj)

your LJ counts as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of opinions, and freedom of thought. and as well it should be.

any kinds of fic is allowed to be posted here, as long as it has the proper header.

Comments

[bodgei.livejournal.com]

Ummm just becasue you write about soemthing dosen't mean you are going to do it...

[bodgei.livejournal.com]

The reseche has shown that people who are offenders are likely to have perused child porn. The differance is more then symantics.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

I agree 100%. I actually don't think any of us are in the position to even judge whether some sort of sexual relationship is right or wrong because people have all levels of acceptance and stuff. If two people love each other, whether they're brothers, cousins, or whatever, if that's what they really want, then who are we to stop them? If you don't like it, then ignore it. That's what most people say. But I say that acceptance is always more effective than tolerance, but tolerance is usually the easier route for people. But yeah, it bugs me too when people leave comments like, "Ewwww" on fics that are Wincest or slash or whatever. Wtf are you doing reading that when the headings TELL you it's everything you wouldn't want to read? *facepalm*

I'm linking the flist here since obvious as your post is, there are people who really need to see this.

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

I'm linking the flist here since obvious as your post is, there are people who really need to see this.

if by this you mean you're directing people her to read this post, by all means, yes!! :D

thanks! :D

[potthead.livejournal.com]

First, I don't ship Wincest, but your comment makes it sound like you think Wincest and child porn are the same thing, when, in fact, they're not. Just thought I'd clear that up for ya.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

Yep, I'm typing up an entry now and am linking here. :) I thought it was also the least I could do since I couldn't think of any other communities you could post this to.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

So a third of LJ is going to become convicted felons based on what they read and write? You sound so narrow-minded.

You drop a dime on the floor, it rolls in a spiral, then twirls to a standstill.

What are the odds that could happen the same way again? Millions, maybe trillions, to one. And yet it happened as naturally as if there were no odds against it. Every event in our lives happens as if there were no odds against it, which means our lives have operational definitions-- definitions that work for a certain series of circumstances and conditions.

What I'm saying is just because someone ships Wincest or something so trivial does not mean that said person will become a criminal. There is no formula for concocting a criminal/felon.

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

thanks! that's just... awesome! :D

(i xposted my post here, cause, well, this one's my comm. heh. my entry is locked cause i'm on my 9-year-old daughter's flist.)

[bodgei.livejournal.com]

Research with convicted drug offenders has shown that 99% of them have drunk milk in the past as well. It doesn’t naturally follow.

It's a bit like saying Hockey players have a higher incidence of spousal abuse then baseball players, because Hockey is a violent sport, when, in fact, the opposite is true.

I am not saying that incest is a good thing. I'm not saying doesn’t ruin (and even end) lives. I know of lives that have been both ruined and ended because of incest. I don't read it incest fics in general. It's my choice not to read it. I have read a few, and in fact, have read at least one of the fictions in question. It was well written. That said it was an ugly, brutal fic that in NO way romanticized what was going on.

You made the choice honest to yourself by withdrawing from communities that allow incest and underage porn (but have you remember that any sex under the age of 18 would be included in this - so no High school fics). I will continue to make the choice appropriate to me (not to click on a story that says it is a Wincest fic).

My question to you is this. Should we also disallow stories involving murder? Or serial killing? Should Law and Order (and CSI and NCIS) be taken off the air? Should WB have not shown The Benders?

[potthead.livejournal.com]

Yep, I saw that, and I don't blame you for it. I wouldn't want my kids to find out about all this stuff so soon either. XP

Anyway, it's posted! :)

[potthead.livejournal.com]

It doesn't always ruin lives. I mean, if two people love each other and they're not harming anyone, then who are we to keep them from their happiness?

[potthead.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is. While I wouldn't think of jumping my sister or something, if two other siblings somewhere realllly love each other, and they both share such feelings, what's the big deal? It's their happiness and their love, and as long as no one's getting hurt, it's not a big deal. There are so many worse things a person can do than love someone with all their heart.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

You are just not gonna get it are you? You'll say anything to justify your aberration.
That's what you do in a debate. That's what you're doing. It's a little stick-up-the-ass of you to assume that you're definitely in the right here. I'm not just going to cower down to your ignorant way of viewing this in a black and white way.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

First, my argument isn't about child sexual abuse, it's about incest. Cuz any sort of abuse is bad. I don't know all the details, but your case seems to be incest with child sexual abuse, and for that, I'm sorry. But that does NOT mean you automatically have the right to say all incestual relationships are automatically bad just because you had a bad experience. It's unfortunate for you, but insincere as this may seem, your ONE experience means you know 'squat' as well. ONE experience does not define the many millions, maybe even trillions of other scenarios.

[potthead.livejournal.com]

I'm not being willfully blind. I acknowledge that there are bad things about incestuous relationships and such, but there are bad things about a man and a woman in a relationship too. There are bad things about all kinds of relationships.

You, however, are being willfully ignorant by saying all incestuous relationships or whatever will result in something bad and painful/harmful.

[mddevi.livejournal.com]

I agree, I've only read one, I personally don't like them too much, but I respect people who do. I always find myself opening Wincest, usually because the rating is like PG. Thanks for posting this, it needs to be understood by everyone.

[litashields.livejournal.com]

And the connection between Wincest and child porn comes from where? No correlation between the two at all, thanks all the same.

[lfg1986.livejournal.com]

I don't want to get into a long discussion about Wincest and all that, but I just wanted to say that I agree w/ you about people should be able to write whatever they want and not be attacked for it. The concept of free-speech is very often overlooked in situations such as this. Nobody's forcing anyone to read something they don't want to, and it's (hopefully) clearly maked for what it is, so if you don't want to read it, then don't. But for those people who write Wincest and other not-entirely-accepted things, there's no need to people to write nasty things about what they write since it's their right to do so.

And as a side note : Can I borrow your wording on "your LJ counts as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of expression, freedom of opinions, and freedom of thought. and as well it should be." for my own journal?? Cause I'm tired of people writing nasty things about what I say in there.

[acostilow.livejournal.com]

I'ma link to this in my LJ, if you don't mind. Because you know what I went through, and you know how I feel about this entire situation. *gives you flowers*

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

btw, where did you post it?

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

you're very welcome.

PG rated Wincest,i suppose i could handle. a little.

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

I agree w/ you about people should be able to write whatever they want and not be attacked for it. The concept of free-speech is very often overlooked in situations such as this. Nobody's forcing anyone to read something they don't want to, and it's (hopefully) clearly maked for what it is, so if you don't want to read it, then don't.
exactly my point. :)

and sure, feel free to borrow my wording... no prob. heh, that's pretty cool. i'm flattered. :D

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

sure!!

aww, thanks! :D

[litashields.livejournal.com]

As a "survivor", you should know better than anyone just how crucial an open mind is. Truth of that matter is, you don't like it, don't read it. I'm sorry it offends you. It's just a TV show, and the fics are just words on a page. I'm sure you had somesort of hobby that helped you to overcome your trama. Well, everyone has some sort of drama or trama in their lives and if they deal with it by exercising their creative liscense... that is their right. Child abuse is never right. But incest is seen as "wrong" or "deviant" because modern society considers it to be so.

Ancient rulers could only marry a family member, to keep the bloodline pure. Incest was a sign of status, that your blood was too precious to be tainted by an outside source. The world changes.

And using the phare "willfully blind" is pretty pretentious, don't you think? Seeing as how you don't really know what they are thinking and whether they truely are being "willfully blind".

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

so, i tried to do your friending meme, and only your friends can post in your lj. interesting.